Thanks for this conversation: it was one of the more considered and calm that I've come across.
I resonated with a lot of the points you guys covered. Especially the 'krivda' (?) twisted-truth thing, and the rah-rah promotion from Gafni. (I definitely see a perverse incentive here: he receives benefit for his work from the Aubrey-Vylana-Alana model working out.)
I guess the only thing I would add is this. (Which wasn't denied by your conversation. But wasn't explicitly stated either.) Embedding a relationship in a relational ecology can lead to evolution being held back by the collective center-of-gravity of the collective. Maybe the healthiest way is for the proposed path to be subject to collective feedback. And then for those involved to say 'We hear you - but it still feels true for us.' (If it does.)
I really appreciate this conversation. Deus voices many of my same observations, particularly the question of discernment around “intuitive insights” and “authentic spiritual guidance”…and the simple notion of not believing everything we think, giving merit to every thought we have, no matter how it seems to appear to us. The older I get, and the more I have erred in my relationships, the more I have come to learn that the hallmark of emotional and spiritual maturity is *not knowing*. (And no one, truly no one, can quote Leonard Cohen like that and it look like a complete ass.)
Here via our mutual friend Ty Stuart. I really appreciated hearing you both on this. In particular, I'm imagining how much more powerful and balanced it might have felt to present challenge, questioning, and unresolved tensions rather than a celebratory and simplified narrative. I am also staggered by their choice to reveal this in this way ... there's something simultaneously innocent and foolish, and martyr-like about the move.
Thanks for this conversation: it was one of the more considered and calm that I've come across.
I resonated with a lot of the points you guys covered. Especially the 'krivda' (?) twisted-truth thing, and the rah-rah promotion from Gafni. (I definitely see a perverse incentive here: he receives benefit for his work from the Aubrey-Vylana-Alana model working out.)
I guess the only thing I would add is this. (Which wasn't denied by your conversation. But wasn't explicitly stated either.) Embedding a relationship in a relational ecology can lead to evolution being held back by the collective center-of-gravity of the collective. Maybe the healthiest way is for the proposed path to be subject to collective feedback. And then for those involved to say 'We hear you - but it still feels true for us.' (If it does.)
Thanks again!
I really appreciate this conversation. Deus voices many of my same observations, particularly the question of discernment around “intuitive insights” and “authentic spiritual guidance”…and the simple notion of not believing everything we think, giving merit to every thought we have, no matter how it seems to appear to us. The older I get, and the more I have erred in my relationships, the more I have come to learn that the hallmark of emotional and spiritual maturity is *not knowing*. (And no one, truly no one, can quote Leonard Cohen like that and it look like a complete ass.)
This was really really great. Thank you.
Here via our mutual friend Ty Stuart. I really appreciated hearing you both on this. In particular, I'm imagining how much more powerful and balanced it might have felt to present challenge, questioning, and unresolved tensions rather than a celebratory and simplified narrative. I am also staggered by their choice to reveal this in this way ... there's something simultaneously innocent and foolish, and martyr-like about the move.