My guest today is the venerable Michael Meade, author, mythologist, and storyteller, who was a prominent figure in the first wave of the mythopoetic men’s movement of the 80’s and 90’s.
Michael was right in the center of it - sitting alongside legends such as Robert Bly and James Hillman. By the mid 90’s Michael moved away from the men’s movement, and founded the Mosaic Multicultural foundation, a non-profit dedicated to education and cultural healing, working with at-risk youth, returning veterans, prisoners, and youth involved in gang life.
Over the last few years, I’d met Michael at a few public gatherings, and have long desired to sit down with him to understand what happened back then, and what the current mythopoetic wave can learn from his perspective. Just a note: This episode was recorded in late January, at Michael’s studio on Vashon near Seattle.
This was before the coronavirus lockdown, and therefore of course, we don’t speak to this topic. At the same time, in our conversation we cover many other rich areas, including those early days of the mythopoetic men’s movement, the problem with codifying archetypes like king, warrior, magician, and lover - and the heart of men’s work, which for Michael, has always been about journey of the soul.
LINKS
SHOW NOTES
01:23 Introduction to Michael Meade—author, mythologist, and storyteller—who was a central figure in the first wave of the mythopoetic men’s movement.
03:04 Michael describes his studio on Vashon Island and the 90-year-old apple tree that anchors his morning writing ritual.
06:23 The “wild and reckless” early days of men’s retreats and how they were born from personal questions about the legacy of fatherhood.
09:04 Michael distinguishes between a social movement and “soul work,” focusing on the latter as the true aim of awakening the male psyche.
12:11 Why Michael drew a line in the sand regarding the media, arguing that the vulnerability of soul work cannot survive public observation.
18:23 Addressing the limitations of all-white men’s spaces and the founding of the Mosaic Multicultural Foundation to bring diversity to the work.
19:47 Reflecting on toxic masculinity as a symptom of power held by those without a corresponding soulful depth.
23:24 The drum as a universal instrument and heartbeat that grounds men in their bodies and creates communal cohesion.
27:02 A discussion on cultural appropriation versus the natural seeding of imagination between different traditions.
31:45 The “bench” tradition, where mentors demonstrate their own vulnerability before asking it of the group.
35:18 Exploring “Radical Ritual,” which emphasizes making rituals on the spot to meet the authentic needs of the moment.
37:43 A critique of how ritual tools like the talking stick can become mechanisms for avoiding deeper, “bleeding” honesty.
40:53 The Australian Aboriginal ritual question—”Are we going the right way?”—as a guide for maintaining authenticity in process.
46:07 Why the King, Warrior, Magician, Lover framework is a reduction and how the soul produces infinite archetypal energies.
54:37 Looking at the “liquid time” of cultural and natural dissolution and how the psyche responds to the unraveling.
1:00:11 Exploring the “center ground” of the seers and healers who inhabit the space between defined genders.
1:01:38 Reclaiming the true meaning of elderhood as a condition of sacrifice and vision for future generations.
1:06:23 The core conclusion of Michael’s philosophy: the essential life question of whether you truly became yourself.
